Ted said something very interesting at HD Expo ’09 about the fixed lens Scarlet kit. Here is the quote:
we will be making some announcements about timing, features and specifications about a month from now…but the initial specifications haven’t changed…the 2/3″ sensor Scarlet for around $2,500, moving into around $4,000 for a complete shooting kit with a 8x zoom on it.
RED had previously targeted the fixed lens 2/3″ Scarlet at $3,750 so that would mean when Jannard said there will be a “mild impact on pricing” he really meant mild. A lot of people were afraid a fixed lens shooting package would now be around $6k – $8k but that clearly doesn’t seem to be the case. This video was taken 9 days after the Oct. 30th announcement so this is the latest official update from RED.
Ted starts talking about the Scarlet about 1 minute into the video below:
The two stills below were shot at 2k on the RED One camera with a 16mm Angenieux 17.5-70mm F2.2. I shot these wide open so they aren’t tack sharp unfortunately. 2k, 24fps, ISO 320, 1/48 shutter, Build 20. Added a bit of curve in REDCINE-X, no sharpening, and output a full res .tiff file.
The 2/3″ Scarlet cinema will be the same sensor size as the RED at 2k but will be even higher resolution.
Right click on the images and “save link as” for the 13mb TIFFs.
Actually, the camera is not complete. They clarified that statement later saying that the LENS is complete, not the whole camera. Along with this…
After reading the latest announcement from RED I’ve had some major revelations that I’d like to share with everyone. After the announcement, there was a general consensus among those who wanted a Scarlet that, yes, they will want a Scarlet but why do they feel like they are getting dicked around with? Well, there’s a lot of reasons. Let’s look at a few of them.
Release Schedule:
Summer 2008 (Possibly Earlier) – Here comes the announcement of a 3k (resolution) Camera for around $3,000. Considering that this shoots higher resolution than 32mm film (around 2k resolution) it was a BIG deal. The common slogan was “3k for $3k!” and it was being paraded around. It would ship early 2009 (Jan-Apr. estimated)
Fall 2008 – Instead of releasing the camera, they announce they are changing the specs of all the camera’s and implement a really cool, revolutionary way to buy your equipment. Modular. Great, but the camera is pushed back six months for release. The fixed lens camera is $3750 — It’s still the 3k for 3k deal, but it gives you the additional add-ons to have you read to shoot immediately. Camera’s should start releasing summer 2009.
Later in Fall 2008 – New specs and prices are released. Most don’t consider this a huge change from before as everything is modular. But essentially the same.
Summer 2009 – We haven’t heard anything for a while. People are nervous. A statement is released saying they are being slow to release the camera’s because their manufacturers dropped, went out of business, and the people at RED are working less hours (expected because of the economy). They said this would be a 2-3 month delay, not bad.
Now, 2-3 months later or more – We are told that the Scarlet specs have changed AGAIN, that the price is going to go up (we don’t know how much except that the camera is better than before so it makes sense for a price raise). Also, there’s no announcement as to the release of the Scarlet. All the attention is on the EPIC (their $28,000 camera) which is going through beta and won’t release for several more months officially, except to loyal RED customers, who will be working through the Beta and determining when it will be finished. Assuming the Scarlet goes through a similar process, it may be another 6 months before we see a Scarlet. However, this could be a false assumption and we may see one at any moment. RED isn’t telling us much. Also, with the announcement we learn that there will be ANOTHER announcement at the end of November…How about they actually release something and stop making announcements?
So those who want a Scarlet feel like they are an afterthought now, instead of really part of the game.
The company uses the phrase “Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it.” And they have hidden behind this several times now. Many people have saved up and postponed other purchases to get this camera based on the rough idea they’d have it within 6 months after the announced date. People expect delays. Then the company changes their mind, scraps the product and makes a new one, and pushes to release that instead. When people complain, they throw this sentence at them and tell them they shouldn’t have expected anything. What kind of business model is that? Upset because you made a SLOGAN, a major announcement, then didn’t even remotely stick to it on any ground?
Many Scarlet users still wish they had the original Scarlet. It could be released, they could be shooting professional quality videos, and they could be rolling with it. Then the new products could’ve come along and they could’ve chosen to upgrade or not. But right now, a lot of hype was created by RED that they didn’t live up to and now they are hiding.
You say “No they aren’t!”. Actually, they have been actively deleting posts on the forums regarding the Scarlet wanters who are upset:
“Just a reminder.. if you wanna bitch.. do it in the complaint department. If you do it here.. your threads will just be deleted so you are wasting your time.” Jarred Land, who is on the RED Staff.
Another great quote from Jarred, “…if there is one thing that does piss me off, is when people keep saying “RED PROMISED THIS, RED PROMISED THAT,” . We never promised anything.” On this basis, RED is allowed to announce anything they want including Time Machines, a $1 iPod, or a decent video camera and we should have the same expectations of all of those products coming into actuality. Forgive us for thinking that you are actually going to attempt to accomplish something that you announce.
Shortly before this statement he writes, “We never targeted the consumer market nor ever announced intentions to target the consumer market. Scarlet, all the way down the the removable 2/3.” In other words — your excuse that a consumer used to be able to afford the announced camera and no longer can because of the price raise is bull crap because we never intended to “sell to that market”, even though they made a low priced camera perfectly capable. It just wasn’t “officially announced”, though even if it was “officially announced” we couldn’t believe it, because nothing they say can be taken as factual.
Posters on the forums who previously owned a RED One because they could afford it (around $50,000 for the camera and all it’s accessories to be functional) are mocking the Scarlet users telling them they aren’t professional, are whining, or simply don’t understand how great RED is.
“So all this Veruca Salt-ish, “I want it now, Daddy” sentiment makes me realize just how important a bomb-proof program is…if RED released even a mildly buggy or less than perfected camera to this impatient next generation of users, they’d be opening a big can of whup-ass on themselves.” Meryem Ersoz on the forums.
Everything is released less than perfect these days. Operating Systems, Blu Ray Players, External Hard Drives, everything having to do with technology. They all go through upgrades and they all go versions. To argue that they are just going to complain on this basis is silly, and yet it’s used to attack these Scarlet fans.
One person whose post was deleted from the main part of the website for everyone to see and moved somewhere else gives the following examples of mistreatment:
“The Disappointed: We wanted the Scarlet that was initially promised. Stop making it so complicated.
The Apologists: They are trying it to do it right. Patience!
The Disappointed: We want them to do it right as well but we don’t all the bells and whistles.
The Apologists: Too bad! Suck it up.
The Disappointed: But we want to shoot now. We are ready to suck it up. We understand it might be difficult earlier on.
The Apologists: That’s what you are saying now. When you get a half finished camera, you will come here bitching and moaning.
The Disappointed: No I promise. I am just disappointed, it has been almost two years now.
The Apologists: You can’t be a truly Red fan if you sound disappointed. This is an independent company. Jim is so [great]!!!
The Disappointed: We agree. We saved all our pennies doing piddly things to buy this camera.
The Apologists: Well, you should have gotten a Red fool! Like I did! Haha!
The Disappointed: It is out of my price range. I just want a camera that has a good codec and an interchangeable lens setup.
The Apologists: You clearly must be an amateur. You need more than just that. You need 5k. You need a full frame sensor. You need [this] and [that].
The Disappointed: Not really. When I need something like that I’ll will rent.
The Apologists: In any case, you should appreciate the honesty of Red. They have been open with their development. No other company does that.
The Disappointed: You’re right. I’m being honest too.”
I have had 5 of my posts removed that had valid concerns and while they were attacked, the attacks were completely de-bunked and I was standing uncorrected — shortly before they were deleted and I was told to stop “bitching” on the main page.
One of the forum moderators that these conversations were happening on explained why the posts were deleted. He said:
“So you are saying we are dishonest by moving your post to another thread?
Reason that many posts were removed was that they were repetitive and didn’t add anything new to the discussion (FYI: there were also many “positive” comments removed).”
To which my response was, “If repetitive and not adding anything is the requirement to have a post removed than you should remove 90% of the posts on there…”. Many of the positive posts, and many of the off topic posts have been left on the board. It’s a significant number of the negative posts that have been removed. Also, I have yet to hear back from the moderator.
Some of the RED One owners are a little upset as well. A cut off date was establish where you could no longer trade in your Red One for the new Epic (This is similar to if you bought a Windows Vista/XP laptop in the last month before Windows 7 released, they give you a new Windows 7 at a discount or free). The cut off date was the day before the announcement. Um…Unfair at all?
So, you tell me, why are the Scarlet users feeling mistreated? If you haven’t any clue, then you need to try and look at things from others perspective.
Given all of this, most of the people at RED are awesome. The users are mostly friendly (though fanboyish). I still look forward to the release of the Scarlet especially once we hear the details on the specs and the price. But as a company they should really be careful of the image they are portraying. I saw a good number of people interested in the Scarlet that no longer are interested in it. Red claims the market is “cold” right now, but it may be because they created that cold market for themselves in some ways. Obviously the economy plays a large part in it, but they don’t seem to be helping themselves.
06.04.2009Zoning Changes Approved for RED Ranch Las Vegas Clark county has approved zoning changes that will allow the RED ranch to go ahead as scheduled. Read more here: www.lasvegassun.com/news/
“RED Digital Cinema has chosen Las Vegas to build the new RED Ranch Headquarters. Located about ten minutes from MaCarran International Airport and the Las Vegas Strip at the base of the hills in western Las Vegas Summerlin area, RED Ranch facilities will support design, engineering, manufacturing, sales, service and operations… plus a soundstage, restaurant, town center and limited housing on an 80 acre site.
We are committed to growing the RED program founded on delivering innovate shooting solutions based around the most advanced sensor program possible.
